Zack Grant, CEO of SEAS Productions, joins us to share his insights on the immense value of events industry education for transforming businesses and...
Episode 25: The Importance of Community and Trust in the Live Events Industry
In this episode, Angela Alea talks with Eric Newkirk, President of EPN, about his 36 years in the live events industry. Eric shares how he got his start in theater in high school and they talk about the importance of community and trust in the live events industry.
What we're talking about 💬
- The magic of live events and the impact they can have on audiences.
- Angela shares her experience of being inspired by keynotes and taking those stories home to share with her children.
- Eric talks about the Event Production Network (EPN), a networking group with a focus on community, trust, and shared knowledge, and why it is so important to him.
- The two also discuss the challenges and vulnerabilities that come with working in the live event industry and the importance of being open and real with one another in order to solve problems and improve.
Important Links 🔗
Read the Transcript 📚
[00:00:36] Angela Alea: Welcome back to Corralling the Chaos. Today we're gonna talk about the importance of community and the friends and relationships we have all made along the way that quite honestly have carried many of us when we've had our tough. Tough days, tough months, or for many in our industry, a tough few years.
[00:00:57] Angela Alea: So today our guest that's gonna help us talk about [00:01:00] this is Eric Newkirk. He is the vice President at Steve Co, which is an AV FX company. He's been at CCO for 25 years, has spent 36 years and live. He is also the current President of Event production Network, formally known as r s n. He is most proud of his family who have supported him in such a demanding career, which I think we can all relate to that, right?
[00:01:26] Angela Alea: Our families have have been there for us, but he also g uh, enjoys getting to work with so many of us clients on some of their most important projects. So, welcome Eric to the.
[00:01:37] Eric Newkirk: Thanks for having me, Angela.
[00:01:39] Angela Alea: So, 36 years in live events, huh? Um, we could probably talk all day about that. I'm sure you've got quite a few stories.
[00:01:48] Angela Alea: Um, but I do wanna spend a few minutes here. So tell us a little bit about how you got in the industry, why you stayed in it 36 years even.
[00:01:55] Eric Newkirk: I said, it's crazy. It's, uh, it was a high school theater [00:02:00] bug that I caught. Uh, it was walking on stage. I was, I was told by my dad that I need to, uh, take theater so that I can learn how to.
[00:02:08] Eric Newkirk: Learn how to speak with others, learn how to conduct yourself in a, in a small audience. And when I got there, um, they were using hammers the wrong way. They were using the, the tools and they were gonna hurt themselves. So I s I quickly got onto the tech side and uh, and that's where I stayed. So, um, Gosh, that was, uh, that was high school and, and we did a lot of special events in high school, putting on the dances and all that stuff.
[00:02:33] Eric Newkirk: And, and it just carried me through my college years with, uh, um, BA in theater, but, uh, but still, uh, stuck with live events and, uh, did the concert work. Did not so much touring, but local, uh, local music scene, local, um, arenas and. and amphitheater work during the summers and then, uh, moved on to, uh, what would [00:03:00] be a more sustainable career in, uh, professional AV and live event production.
[00:03:05] Eric Newkirk: And here we are today, you know, doing, you know, doing what I'm still passionate about from when I was probably 16 or 17. It's
[00:03:15] Angela Alea: so interesting you say you got your start, um, in theater. I feel like so many of our guests that we've asked that question to, they say the same thing. So what a great kind of launchpad for, for our industry.
[00:03:26] Angela Alea: I think that's fantastic. So that's what got you into, into the industry. What are some of the things that have kept you in the industry?
[00:03:33] Eric Newkirk: Being valued for what you know and have skills at is, is at the core of, of why I continue to do what I do. You know? Um, it's great that I can make a living at it. It's great that I can raise a family and be a part of.
[00:03:49] Eric Newkirk: You know, uh, a community being involved with, uh, with, with something that's special to a, a core group of people, it's typically centered [00:04:00] around a, a meaning or a purpose or, or a message that's gotta get out. And sometimes it's. Very overt in, its in its sales oriented, you know, meaning, you know, we, we want you to buy more of our products so that we can make more money so that we can pay more people and we can feed their families.
[00:04:17] Eric Newkirk: I get that, and I think that's great. I think there's definitely a place for all of that. Um, but I think that when it comes to producing events that have, uh, um, have a, a core, uh, center to them that, uh, that. basic on a human level, um, it's, it's way more meaningful. And I, I, I look forward to all of reaching the highs and the lows and taking audiences on journeys.
[00:04:44] Eric Newkirk: That is, that is the thrill
[00:04:46] Angela Alea: for me. Any specific journeys that are most memorable to you or, or big things that you are a part of when you talk about your purpose, right? Being a part of something that's bigger than yourself, so any particular memorable events that you're a [00:05:00] part of that were meaningful to you person?
[00:05:03] Eric Newkirk: I guess once you get past, um, being a part of a crew on, on one of your, you know, one of your childhood favorite artists? Um, I, I guess I was a, I was a big fan of the police and staying in when I was doing a show. Um, and, and it was a, you know, it was a. 18,000 person, uh, concert event. We had, uh, we had done all the setup and, and everything, and, and, and I'm going through the catering line at lunchtime and I'm, I'm getting some of my cold cuts for my sandwich.
[00:05:35] Eric Newkirk: And, and, uh, right behind me is, uh, is the artist. And, and you know, When you're standing right next to the, uh, person that you've, you've seen perform and you've seen in all these music videos and stuff, and they're just a normal person and you can relate to them one-to-one, how's your day? How, how are you enjoying Colorado?
[00:05:55] Eric Newkirk: Uh, different conversations like that are just, uh, you know, those are things [00:06:00] that I remember. Um, I would say that, you know, you talk about those kind of situations and, and. Some, some people can get starstruck and just like, you know, hopefully you disappear. You know, you don't wanna be noticed. But, uh, but I, uh, I embraced that moment and, um, and I think other things like, uh, you know, an, an annual meeting where, you know, the president of the company has got a lot on the line.
[00:06:27] Eric Newkirk: He's got one opportunity to make it right and to get that message across. Those are, those are also really important to me. I. I always appreciate being included in their, in their family. I, I just consider myself an extended part of the family. Somebody who, you know, they get to see for a week out of the year, and, uh, and they, you know, welcome you with open arms.
[00:06:52] Eric Newkirk: That those are the kinds of relationships that we
[00:06:54] Angela Alea: look for. Yeah, when the stakes are high, you can't help but. People can't help but pull [00:07:00] together. Right. To kind of focus on the, the execution of that. You know, it's funny, as you were, as I was saying, you know, like what are some of those journeys that are most memorable?
[00:07:09] Angela Alea: Uh, my mind immediately went to. . I wonder how many people listening to this, like all the cool stories and all the things, the aha moments, the things where they were like, man, this is the coolest industry. Only here. Do I get to do X only here? Do I get to c x only here, do I get to be a part of accomplishing this?
[00:07:27] Angela Alea: Right? Like I'm part of this success. Um, and you're right. I mean, I think we, we take, it's not just the execution of the show, it's. . It's, how does that change us? You know, I, I, I'm the first to admit, I still shame shamelessly all the time when I'm, you know, uh, uh, just a fly on a wall listening to some of these, even these keynotes.
[00:07:47] Angela Alea: And I have two kids. They're teenagers now, 16 and 14. But, you know, I, I always leave just inspired. because to your point, right, like some of these are are owners, they're presidents, they're CEOs. These are people who have accomplished [00:08:00] like the impossible and their stories are inspiring. And I take those stories home and I tell my kids and I like, I wanna like pour it into them.
[00:08:08] Angela Alea: Like if they could only hear this story, right? Or or be here. And so I think that is where just so much of that magic happens. And I think we're all so fortunate to. a literal front row seat in, into some of these things. So I think that's great. Um, and I'm sure many of you listening have really cool stories too.
[00:08:26] Angela Alea: So we're gonna make, we might make that another topic for another time. Cause I think that would be really cool to kind of pull all of that together. Um, well tell us about E P N and why is that so near and dear to your heart? I know we at Lasso have participated in E P N. We have thoroughly enjoyed it because of the camaraderie, because of.
[00:08:47] Angela Alea: Real authentic conversations, the partnerships, the friendships. Um, and it is a unique group unlike any other, because I think the [00:09:00] companies who participate there, um, you got, you all just have each other. You, you talk about the, the things that, um, you're probably scared to talk about. It's just very real.
[00:09:12] Angela Alea: And it's like open books. And I think that our industry has. Some things to learn about that. Cause I think so many times our industry is skeptical. They try to hold back. I don't wanna show people, you know, the dysfunction behind the curtain. I'm afraid to talk about it, but if I don't talk about it, I'm never gonna solve it.
[00:09:29] Angela Alea: And I feel like e p n man, when I think about those companies, many of them are our customers and clients. Like I, I, I, I so admire that. Cause I think it takes guts. So tell everybody. About E P N and why it's so near and dear to your
[00:09:41] Eric Newkirk: heart. Okay. Um, well, I, I, on the, on the surface, it's a networking group, right?
[00:09:48] Eric Newkirk: But, um, uh, when you, when you dive in a little deeper and you, and you look at what the core values of the group are, um, I, I really believe that adherence to those core values is [00:10:00] what has kept it, uh, special because, uh, I, I want to say we're, we're close to. 12, 13, 14 years. I'm embarrassed. I don't have it, uh, right off the top of my head, but it's get, it's getting up there in terms of, um, from its inception.
[00:10:16] Eric Newkirk: But it could have taken, uh, several paths along the way and certainly the success of the member companies, uh, in, in terms of, you know, economic performance and viable companies. Is really important to, uh, the organization. We wouldn't be who we are without the membership, but, um, but our core values are, um, a sense of community, uh, and trust in one another and, uh, shared knowledge.
[00:10:47] Eric Newkirk: Um, what's important to note about all those things is there's not a single thing about making more money. There's not a single thing about. Profitability. There's not a [00:11:00] single thing in shareholder value, et cetera. What that tells me is that it's more important to be in the room and to share valuable conversations and have difficult discussions with, with people that are struggling with some of the same challenges that you are.
[00:11:18] Eric Newkirk: If you can, uh, have a conversation with somebody about it and they're gonna be willing to share what their experience has been, good, bad, and ugly, it. It's gonna help move the, the needle for you in your, in your business, whatever the challenge is. It can be, it can be talent oriented, it can be, um, uh, profit oriented.
[00:11:38] Eric Newkirk: It can be transportation, it can be supply chain issues. All those, all those topics can come up, uh, over the course of, over a couple days at, at, as some of the meetings. We, we hold events, uh, every, um, every quarter, uh, with the principles. And we also do, uh, deeper dives with, um, the organization, uh, within [00:12:00] the departments, say, um, HR and, and, uh, IT and accounting.
[00:12:05] Eric Newkirk: Uh, you have peers in the industry because all of the member companies are. Are small businesses, the trust, uh, core value comes from, comes from that. You don't, you don't necessarily have to worry about sharing, um, some of your. Uh, you know, nitty gritty details when you know that you don't have, uh, immediate competitors in the room.
[00:12:29] Eric Newkirk: And so that, uh, that trust is the, is the starting point, and it's the building block for being able to have those, uh, conversations and be able to experience some of the growth that you can by, um, by sharing. And then, uh, when you, when you have this principle of shared knowledge, it's, it's, You know, you've got a best practice in your business.
[00:12:53] Eric Newkirk: Um, you better believe that there are others that are gonna be interested in how you've made that work for, uh, [00:13:00] for your client base. Um, do all 27 member companies. Uh, share in the, in the same profile of businesses? No, absolutely not. They're, they're small businesses. They run themselves independently and, uh, and, and, and they have their own belief systems and their own value structure and, uh,
[00:13:20] Eric Newkirk: Some members come and some members go and, and, uh, and that's okay. Um, if, uh, if the ownership structure of the business changes and, and their priorities change, then they may, uh, they may not be a good fit. But, um, but by and large, if you're in this community for those same core values, um, you're contributing to the success of the entire network and you can.
[00:13:44] Eric Newkirk: You know, little bits of knowledge that you learn along the way and, and, uh, and share it out with your, with your team. Um, these are, these are just the core principles of, uh, of, of what the E p N stands for. [00:14:00]
[00:14:00] Angela Alea: I love that. So, community trust, shared knowledge. You know, you, you talked about the principles of these companies and sometimes department heads and, you know, you know, when I think.
[00:14:13] Angela Alea: The ownership and even operators of these companies, you know, it can be a really lonely place, um, especially the last few years, right? Because you're, you're, you're having to lead, um, from a position of strength, even though you might feel like you're on shaky ground, right? You've gotta lead the team and make sure, you know, they feel like they're on solid ground.
[00:14:33] Angela Alea: Um, so I think it can be a lonely place when you don't have somebody. to really talk to. And I think the importance of having a peer group is, I mean, let's face it that that friend group within the industry, is really so important cuz if you don't have somebody that you can just speak candidly about and say, Hey, I'm really scared about this, or, Hey, I'm thinking about trying this, or, Hey, let me learn from you.
[00:14:54] Angela Alea: What are you doing that's working? You know, and having the humility to ask those things because no one has all [00:15:00] the answers, but together there's a whole lot more answers and, and solutions to be had when you kind of put that brain power together. So I, I love those pillars. I love what you all have set up with the authenticity.
[00:15:12] Angela Alea: Um, the trust, right? Like being able to come to the table and say, this is what I'm trying, this is what I'm doing and it works. And I'm gonna tell you cuz you're my friend. I, you, you said it before, friend. Friend over money. Yeah. And that's friends are
[00:15:25] Eric Newkirk: better than money, but yeah. Friends are better than money.
[00:15:28] Eric Newkirk: You know, when you're in a, when you're in a foreign territory, you've, you've taken the show on the road or your client takes you on the road, uh, it is priceless to be able to have a friend in that market who will drop whatever they're doing to help you out of whatever. Uh, whole or challenge your client has put you in.
[00:15:47] Eric Newkirk: And let's, let's be honest. Um, that's kind of why we're in this game. We started this call with that, with that principle is that we, we like the challenge. We, we love going into a mission. It's, it's almost, you know, [00:16:00] militaristic when you think about it. But we prepare and prepare and prepare and then we go, go, go.
[00:16:04] Eric Newkirk: And it's, and it's all, uh, it's all in for, uh, for that client, for that week, for that day, or whatever it is. And, uh, and if you can. , uh, the knowledge that somebody's got your back. And, uh, and then also working on the business. Uh, you can reach out to somebody and you know, we, when you share as often as we do, um, like I said, the, that those three times a year you start to get to know, oh, this company is, uh, is working on this.
[00:16:31] Eric Newkirk: I, I'm, I'm reminded of a, of a story that I heard, um, just last week. I think it actually, it was two weeks ago. We met. in, uh, in Denver, coincidentally for, uh, uh, our fall meeting. And we heard a story about a comp, what a company is working on, uh, in, in the R F I D world. And R F I D is, is, uh, asset tracking with, you know, on, on steroids, right?
[00:16:57] Eric Newkirk: We're all doing this barcode scanning in the [00:17:00] warehouses. Mm-hmm. and R F I D has been around for a long, long time, but it's been difficult to adopt in our business because, , we've got cases and we've got hundreds and hundreds of, of cables, and all this stuff is like, working through that challenge is, is really, um, is really daunting for a small business.
[00:17:18] Eric Newkirk: Yeah. And so, um, a company that shared what their exploration of that has been and, and the uh, uh, and the intellectual. Property, the r and d that has gone into, uh, developing that process. There have been so many people waiting with baited breath, uh, to see what the results of that little experiment have been so that they can.
[00:17:40] Eric Newkirk: they can dive in as well. And, uh, and once you know the, the water's safe to swim in, you, uh, you do want to jump in, uh, in most cases. But, um, sometimes somebody will come back, come back to the group and say, you know, this didn't work out. This is, this was a struggle that we had with it. And, and, uh, and we're gonna put it back in the, on the [00:18:00] back burner for a while, and then, uh, wait for it to cook a little more, but.
[00:18:04] Eric Newkirk: But yeah, our R F I D was just one example. Um, this year I, I I, I wanna mention that our focus has been on, on, on talent. Our focus has been on where do, uh, the good people come from and how do we get more of them? And, and, uh, and I applaud, uh, lasso for being a part of that, um, that big challenge in our industry.
[00:18:28] Eric Newkirk: And I hope that, , I hope that we all get through this recovery. I mean, it, it's, it's a weird thing to say, but you know, the recovery of the industry is, should be a, a great thing, right? But I find more, more companies are struggling with, uh, with growth challenges and, and where to find more people and where to find good people.
[00:18:48] Eric Newkirk: Um, and, uh, and it's just, it's been a question of what kind of projects can. , uh, say no to, um, in this, in this, uh, rebound. [00:19:00] And just managing that in a, in a healthy way for our industry is, is. Really what the EPN has been focused on and trying to give our members the tools, um, uh, recruiting, uh, and talent management.
[00:19:14] Eric Newkirk: Mm-hmm. and workforce development and, and all those kinds of things, um, uh, resources for those member companies to latch onto and, and to, and to help rebuild their companies.
[00:19:26] Angela Alea: Yeah. You literally just mentioned like eight or nine, massive. Initiatives, uphill battles, if you will, that every single one of these companies is, is facing.
[00:19:37] Angela Alea: And I, you know, I always tell my kids, you know, safety in numbers, safety in numbers, . Yeah. And it, and it's so true with e p N even, you know, having that place that you can go. to feel safe. You even just said, Hey, let somebody else try it out. Right? That like, they might have tried out their f i d somebody else might be trying out a new talent acquisition strategy, right?
[00:19:55] Angela Alea: And then coming back and think, you know, just think about how much faster all of you can move [00:20:00] without everyone trying all nine things. It, it's a way to fail fast, learn fast, move fast. And I just think those relationships and, um, those real conversations are more important. And I, and I wish our industry.
[00:20:15] Angela Alea: Did more of that. I, I think our industry. It's changing, but I feel like over the years I've seen so much skepticism and so much I'm hiding my thing and I'm not gonna share. And I feel like we need more sharing, more authenticity, more transparency. I'm gonna say more unapologetic leadership, you know, take the risks, do the things, um, and, and I think, I think E P N is just the epitome of that.
[00:20:42] Angela Alea: Um, when I think about the business leaders in that group, how they operate, the framework in which they make their decisions, um, and so I, I think that's, I think that's fantastic. I think there's so much good there. And for those of you that don't have a peer group, um, I encourage you to check it out and find your peer group.
[00:20:59] Angela Alea: It doesn't [00:21:00] even have to be something. Find, find another business owner, find another operator, find somebody else, ask questions. And that's, that's typically where I find so many of those connections happening is by being humble enough and vulnerable enough to ask questions. Admit you don't know, ask for help.
[00:21:18] Angela Alea: And I think that's where, um, So much of that, that goodness and success happens. So you bet, you
[00:21:23] Eric Newkirk: bet. I, I don't mind sharing that. I think that, um, ev every single member represents a, uh, a, a major market in the North American, uh, territory. So, uh, if there's a listener out there who's a part of, uh, uh, of, of freelance community, and you, and you love to do shows, but you, you're not attached to, uh, one company, you.
[00:21:47] Eric Newkirk: You can connect with these member companies. The values that we share in the E P N, uh, also connect to these, uh, to these companies. And so sharing and learning and, and, and contributing to best practices. [00:22:00] Um, I, uh, I dare any freelancer to go out there and find one of the e p n member companies that is not willing to do that, that is not willing to embrace, uh, a contractor who's, uh, interested in raising their.
[00:22:14] Eric Newkirk: Every single AV company live event producer is, uh, is interested in their local community and what it takes to, uh, to, to build a strong, um, a strong talent pool in their own, uh, in their own backyard, as well as the markets that they serve. Um, so many of us travel, um, and, uh, and maintain databases of, um, of freelancers and, and people you can, you can really count on in.
[00:22:44] Eric Newkirk: far away lands. Right?
[00:22:45] Angela Alea: Absolutely. Well, Eric, tell us about your role at cco. What do you do for them?
[00:22:50] Eric Newkirk: Oh, uh, well, I'm the VP of Design and Creative. Right. I manage a small team of, of, uh, uh, content creators. [00:23:00] Uh, we kind of draw the line at, uh, at writing and, and, and producing and, and message crafting. But, uh, but we do a lot of motion graphics, a lot of PowerPoint redesign.
[00:23:11] Eric Newkirk: Touchscreen, interactive, uh, really proud of our, uh, of our. Boston and Denver based teams that, uh, that help develop content for clients who say, you know what, there's a better way to tell this story through some kind of animation or some kind of quick, uh, graphics. Um, and even some, some other long format, uh, uh, video production where we'll come out on location and do some shooting and stuff.
[00:23:37] Eric Newkirk: So, A lot of that is, is really just, you've got the message, let us help you, uh, deliver it, deliver it in the most meaningful way. So I, uh, I find a lot of fulfillment in, in working with that team. Um, we also do some, uh, some scenic design. Um, uh, you know, Collaborating with our, uh, our lighting designers who work [00:24:00] in CAD and, and making, uh, uh, renderings that are just a little bit more lifelike and help create a, uh, scenic environment.
[00:24:09] Eric Newkirk: That kind of goes back to my theatrical training, but we, uh, we work with, um, clients to help elevate the, the stage set experience, um, to a certain degree and a lot of them, Love to throw out, you know, super Bowl halftime shows and and the, and the Emmys and the Oscars and like, could we do something like that?
[00:24:29] Eric Newkirk: Um, . Absolutely. Um, with a few caveats, right? Yeah.
[00:24:37] Angela Alea: exactly. Anything's possible with the right budget and the right resources. Right, right. Yeah. Yeah. That's right. Well, I love that. To me, I mean that's, that's the essence of any show, right? Is the creativity. Yeah. It, it's, it's all that goes into that, right? The, so I love that you're literally sitting right in the middle of.
[00:24:55] Angela Alea: The magic of the show is the essence of it. So I think that's fantastic. No wonder you've stuck around for 36 [00:25:00] years in this industry. , you're one of the creatives and, and passionate about that, telling stories, and there's so many more stories to be told, especially as our world is evolving and changing so much, you're not having to tell the same story over and over and over, which I think is, makes it fun too.
[00:25:14] Eric Newkirk: For sure. For sure. You just need to pay attention to what, uh, to what's happening around us and, and just, uh, Ask the, the five why's, right? Why is this this way and why is it, you know, just having that curious mind just gives you, you know, the ability to explore, uh, topics that are just amazing. I was, I was talking with a, a, a woman who had, uh, who had recently retired and uh, and she said, uh, uh, she's taken up quilting.
[00:25:46] Eric Newkirk: And I was like, that is just an amazing craft. And I, and. Really? And I was like, yeah, you're telling stories with the work that you're doing, right? Yeah. It's, it's, it's heritage. It's a part of you and it's a part of your family. It's a part of [00:26:00] your life. So, you know, and, and she was like, gosh, you're really smart.
[00:26:04] Eric Newkirk: And I was like, no, no, no. I thought she never
[00:26:05] Angela Alea: even thought of it that way. Right. You just did what comes natural. You
[00:26:08] Eric Newkirk: just, yeah. If, if you can pay attention, art tells a story and, uh, and you just need to be receptive to it. And. , I think filtering out all the noise and, and mm-hmm. , getting that isolation is, uh, is, is really important.
[00:26:25] Eric Newkirk: I talk to a lot of clients about, um, about, uh, the, the theatrical convention that is, you know, directing your audience's attention. What are they gonna look at? What are they gonna see? Um, I, I love it when clients say, okay, we're gonna have a panel discussion. And I'm like, okay. So. Pay attention to what the people who are not saying anything are, are doing, right?
[00:26:50] Eric Newkirk: Because your audience is gonna be distracted by anything that happens over on the other end of the panel discussion, right? You need to give your energy to the [00:27:00] person who's speaking and, and, and even if you disagree with them, which hopefully happens, right? Panel discussions are more interesting when you have contradictory points of view.
[00:27:10] Eric Newkirk: Let's, let's bring. Uh, bring in somebody who says, no, I think you're wrong, and here's why. Right. Um, I think that makes for, uh, for great learning. I think there's, uh, A lot to be said for having alternative perspectives. And when you have, uh, when you have one and you can have a voice, uh, to do that, then you need to embrace it.
[00:27:32] Eric Newkirk: And, um, gosh, I feel like I went down a, a little bit of a No, no, no. A side side
[00:27:36] Angela Alea: trail there with this. No, no. That, that was perfect. That was, that was absolutely perfect. Um, but you kind of teased us a little bit there. I wanna go back and ask, you mentioned the five why's, and I think you went through two.
[00:27:48] Angela Alea: tell our audience the five
[00:27:49] Eric Newkirk: why's. Well, I think the five why's are just a challenging way to get to the core of what it is because you're not gonna get to it with four . [00:28:00] Mm-hmm. . The, the principle is that you need to go deeper and, um, And, and the five why's are, are just that principle that says you need to keep trying because as, as mature as you may be and as tuned in to what you think the reason is for why something is the way that it is.
[00:28:22] Eric Newkirk: there might be more to it. Right. So, yeah. Um, peeling back that onion. Yeah. And, and having those assumptions at the surface, um, doesn't necessarily tell the whole story. And so if you can get to the kernel, the core, the core truth, there's, uh, there's a lot that can be learned by that. And, and when you Yeah.
[00:28:45] Eric Newkirk: The onion is, is a great analogy, but I think there's also this, um, this. , uh, sort of other analogy that is, uh, scar tissue, right? You've built, you've built this protective, uh, uh, layering [00:29:00] around this core issue. And if you get through those five why's, you can get to that core issue. Then you've unpeeled all kinds of baggage that, I mean, things have changed, people have moved on.
[00:29:11] Eric Newkirk: Your reason. Protecting that. Why that fundamental, why you're doing something the way that you're doing it. Um, that's probably changed, right? If you've been doing something the same way for 10 years, ask yourself why, why, why, why, why, why?
[00:29:27] Angela Alea: I feel like our industry has just lived. in that concept for the past two years.
[00:29:33] Angela Alea: Why did we always do it this way? Why? Why, why? Right. Just challenge and challenge and challenge again, until you get to the point of, yeah, okay. That's stinking thinking. We're looking at it differently cuz we're forced to, and I might mm-hmm. , you know, go kicking and screaming, but, , I'm removing the scar tissue.
[00:29:47] Angela Alea: And now that I understand that, like we gotta go. So I, I love that we all
[00:29:51] Eric Newkirk: had to, we all, all had to ditch the theatrical mindset and adopt a broadcast mindset. And uh, and I think those who did it and did it [00:30:00] well are, are really thankful for it. But, uh, uh, fortunately we're seeing some recovery in the, in the business and, and that is, uh, that is all good because I think that, Who was a good friend of mine, Don Ramika, said 17 times more effective, uh, to meet in person.
[00:30:18] Eric Newkirk: So, uh, I'm just gonna go with it. He, he said he had some scientific backing on that data, so we're just gonna attribute that to Don, if you know Don and his
[00:30:27] Angela Alea: scientific data. Yes. Yeah. Very
[00:30:28] Eric Newkirk: good. .
[00:30:30] Angela Alea: Yes. Um, well, this has been great. A, as we wrap up today, I think you've reminded us, um, of a number of things, you know, the importance of our friendships in the.
[00:30:40] Angela Alea: The three pillars that I think kind of go along with that, with E P N, which is community building, those friendships that network, the trust, uh, being vulnerable and. Being trustworthy and sharing knowledge when that trust is there, the ability to share the knowledge and, and all that comes with that. So I think those are really important and [00:31:00] we all invest so much of our lives in this industry and doing what we love.
[00:31:04] Angela Alea: And you mentioned passion, Eric, and so why not invest in those relationships that can really carry us when we need it? I mean, as you. Friends over money, it's more important, so don't lose sight of the purpose. You talked about the purpose, um, being service and community. Again, if you don't have your own community, go build it.
[00:31:24] Angela Alea: Go build your own peer network. Lean on each other and be strong when somebody needs to lean on you. And I just think those are all really important lessons and I appreciate you joining us today, um, to really dive into that. And so thank you for joining us. Thank you all for listening. If you like what you hear, subscribe, and if you have any questions or comments, reach out to firstname.lastname@example.org.